Reading 4904-1

TEXT OF READING 4904-1

Text

Date: 11/13/1930 Sex: M ReadingID: 12923

This Psychic Reading given by Edgar Cayce at his office, 115 West 35th Street, Virginia Beach, Va., this 13th day of November, 1930, in accordance with request made by Edgar Cayce himself.

[Edgar Cayce; Mrs. Cayce, Conductor; Gladys Davis, Steno. W. W. Weaver and J. F. Drummond.]

Weaver & Drummond, Time of Reading 422 Dickson Bldg, 11:35 A. M. Eastern Standard Time. Norfolk, Va.

1. GC: You will have before you the bodies and the enquiring minds of W. W. Weaver and J. F. Drummond, present in this room, and the Automatic Insurance Vending Machine which they contemplate putting on the market. You will also have those associates and individuals who have been consulted in regard to this proposition. You will answer the questions which we will ask you regarding these:

2. EC: Yes, we have the bodies, the enquiring minds - Weaver - Drummond - the proposed automatic vending machine, and the conditions as surround same. In the consideration of conditions as surround same, in regards individuals who have been consulted as respecting financing for the various conditions as surround same - THESE, as we find, rather as an outline than as specific activities on the part of those holding patents, promissory patents, etc:

3. The whole proposition presents many interesting, as well as unusual factors in many ways. Those holding the patents and those building, or financing the building of machines, should be an interlocking corporation, and there should be a separate contract for underwriting of insurance vended. This would have many features that would make same most attractive, both to the insurance companies and to the individuals handling the proposition. Ready for questions.

4. (Q) Is the Automatic Insurance Vending machine ready to market? (A) Ready to be BUILDED FOR marketing.

5. (Q) What is most advantageous plan to market proposition? (A) As outlined, that the holdings company of patents - and the builders of machines - be an interlocking corporation. Then, at the same time, there may be the contracts with insurance companies for the underwriting of insurance distributed.

6. (Q) Should the insurance company buy machines or only sell insurance? (A) As given, best that these be kept separate for many reasons; for insurance companies are organized for selling insurance, not for selling VENDING machines! Then the interlocking corporation, as holders of patents and the distributing of machines, be the holdings company for THAT operation. This will prevent the activities of others obtaining similar patents for distributing insurance in like or similar manners, see? So that, when - or should there be - and of course there will be many changes wrought in the manner of construction, in the various classes of machines as would be builded - THEN there could be those PROPER handling of basic patents - as some of these ARE - that are held on such machines, see?

7. (Q) What will be best insurance company to handle proposition? (A) There are MANY that may be considered. These are only as ones to approach: ANY that make a SPECIALTY of accident insurance, that have sufficient capital, and that are of a reputation that is unquestioned. These should be considered first. As Travellers, as National, as International, as Lloyds (this could be considered best), as ANY of those that make a specialty of same. The NATIONAL presents an ideal one, on account of the manner in which servicing of same, would be most or best considered; as would Metropolitan in another field in which THAT may become interested. Any of these - for these will be considered, see?

8. (Q) When will be the best time to approach them? (A) When a machine is built and it is shown how it may deliver the product!

9. (Q) Will Joe Blume and Al Blume firm in New York be able to handle this proposition satisfactorily? (A) They may AID in same, and their associations and connections may be influenced, but DO NOT give same WHOLLY in their charge until it has gone farther along.

10. (Q) What basis should Drummond and Weaver deal with David E. Kahn? (A) This should be on a basis of that as is presented in an operative measure; that is, each are furnishing - or will furnish - a portion of a service, and on THAT basis should there be the proper consideration given each; for one is as necessary to the other as the other is to the one.

11. (Q) What basis shall Kahn suggest to insurance company? (A) These would rather make their own rates! and would be very apt to! Make the best rates with, as an underwriting basis, see?

12. (Q) What bankers should be seen on this matter? (A) That would depend considerable on the insurance companies, or company - for they make it companies - that would handle the proposition; for there are few of the STRONG insurance companies that haven’t already banking connections that are UNQUESTIONED, and THOSE would be the ones MOST interested in the proposition. The FIRST proposition is to BUILD a machine, even whether hand built, machine built, or what!

13. (Q) What organization should be formed and how should they function? (A) It has been given that there should be a HOLDINGS company, or two - these being interlocking; those holding the patents and rights, and those BUILDING the machines for distribution, see?

14. (Q) What improvements can we make on the machine? (A) These would merely come as the DEVELOPMENTS are made. As laid out, WE find it would work, would deliver - and that’s what’s necessary!

15. (Q) What are the best selling arguments? (A) As to the great amount of distribution of insurance at the least cost to the insurance company, and at the least cost to the man insured - and those are irrefutable!

16. (Q) How much capital should we raise to handle the matter fully and satisfactorily? (A) Couple of million.

17. (Q) What legal protection to we need now to proceed? (A) These have all been set right, but it will be NECESSARY for the proper legal attention to be given in the setting of an interlocking HOLDINGS and an interlocking DISTRIBUTING company that will be protection. This is where legal advice would be the MOST necessary.

18. (Q) Is this machine fully protected against competition of a similar nature? (A) No one ever would be! It is protected in basic PRINCIPLES, which - as has been given, is the main reason for there being an INTERLOCKING - see? Get what this means! An interlocking holdings company, of those holding basic patents and the distributors; so that, when there might be MANY machines eventually - or different machines eventually distributed by the SAME COMPANY to OTHER insurance companies, or in other fields. You are not given the full right, except as in that special TYPE of machine. When types or changes are made, they may be made to other fields too.

19. (Q) What is the best manner of distribution? (A) That would be determined a great deal by the company who was underwriting the insurance; that is, they may be in cooperation, and in those fields and those centers where there is the best opportunity for the first SERVICING. Then they would be extended in their various fields and manners, for they will cover a GREAT territory. Those that apparently now represent, or present the BEST fields - would be found later in other centers to mean much more. See?

20. (Q) Would Max Hammerling and his father be of advantage in this deal? (A) Max Hammerling’s influence and abilities as an advisory capacity in the legal phase would be MOST helpful in this handling, or in the handling of this proposition - and the INTERESTS as represented BY the father or associates would be helpful in the financing, provided those conditions, those agreements between the two holdings companies - or the interlocking holdings companies - were set properly.

21. (Q) Please advise David E. Kahn how to handle this matter. (A) It’s laid before him here! Then just go to work and do it!

22. (Q) Any other advice to these bodies regarding this? (A) This should be taken in an idea of being able through such channels to render a service to many, and if that idea and ideal is kept - rather than “how much I may gouge the other fellow” - the proposition can be made to become most worth while, for the laborer is ever worthy of the hire. It should make ALL associating self with same independent! and WILL, if kept on that basis! FROM the financial standpoint.

23. We are through for the present.

Copy to Weaver & Drummond Two copies to Ass’n office - Edgar Cayce’s personal file Copy to David E. Kahn (one of these later sent to DEK, as he lost his copy)

Reports

Reports & Follow-up

R1. 11/13/30 J. F. Drummond’s letter to DEK:

Weaver and Drummond 422 Dickson Building Norfolk, Virginia

Mr. David E. Kahn, New York City

Dear Mr. Kahn:

We met with Mr. Cayce this morning and heard him give the reading.

We were astounded at the grasp shown of the entire proposition, and seriously impressed with the manifestation.

We are free to say that our confidence is greatly reinforced.

Mr. Cayce’s Secretary will forward the manuscript to you directly and also furnish us with a copy.

Awaiting your further comments, we are, with kindest regards,

Yours very truly, Weaver & Drummond, J.F. Drummond

R2. 11/28/30 W. W. Weaver’s letter to DEK:

Mr. David E. Kahn, New York City

Dear Mr. Kahn:

We had hoped to hear from you by this time, and being very anxious to proceed with our plans, we would appreciate a letter at your earliest convenience.

If possible, kindly let us hear from you by the first of next week, as we have other connections with whom we wish to talk if we make no deal with you. However we wish to state that as suggested by you, we have discussed this matter no one outside of our group since talking with you.

With kind regards, we are,

Yours very truly, Weaver & Drummond, by W. W. Weaver

Copy to Edgar Cayce

R3. 12/3/30 EC’s reply [to DEK asking for another copy of 4904-1]: ”…I phoned Weaver and Drummond. I think they are nice boys, and I hope you will be able to work out the proposition for them in a way that will be most satisfactory to everyone concerned…”

R4. 12/5/30 Mr. Drummond’s letter to EC:

Mr. Edgar Cayce, Virginia Beach, Va.

Dear Mr. Cayce:

We enclose a letter received by us from Mr. Kahn [See Par. R5 below], together with copy of our reply to him.

With very best wishes, we are,

Cordially yours, WEAVER AND DRUMMOND, By: [signed] J. F. Drummond

R5. 12/2/30 DEK’s letter:

FEDERAL WOOD PRODUCTS CORPORATION 419-421 La Fayette Street, New York, N.Y.

Weaver & Drummond, 422 Dickson Building Norfolk, Virginia

Gentlemen:

In answer to your letter of November 28, I realize that you are in great haste to get action on your proposition.

However, you must remember, big things move slowly and although we have had several meetings in New York, it takes time to get groups to determine what they are going to do. I have a man coming on from the West this week, who is President of one of the largest insurance groups in the country. He is due here Wednesday or Thursday. We have other meetings planned during the week but I can make no promises as to when we can get the groups entirely together. I know they are interested. I have not suggested your coming to New York because the time is not ripe for you to spend the money to come here and wait.

You can rest assured of one thing, however; nothing will be done in a definite way until you are present at the meeting. The reason I made my suggestion about discussing this with anyone else is, because in New York, the first question is asked: “Has this proposition been turned down by anybody?” Secondly, “Are you discussing it with anyone else?” If you are, they are not interested.

It is better to work it through the channels that I am now working in and if it cannot be handled with them, it can be handled with no one because they are the largest people in the business. One other group I have, are worth seventy-five million dollars. I would like to have it understood that you will always give me thirty days’ notice of any intention on your part of discussing this matter with other parties.

I will promise you, however, that in the event we have not something definite that we are working on, you will be released from your promise immediately upon receipt of your letter or a good reason will come to you why we want to continue on.

We do not want to mislead you but at the same time, we must have a definite understanding because we spend time and money in discussing these matters when to you it may seem that no action is being taken.

Have you considered putting a stamp machine for the sale of postage stamps in this same machine? What protection have you against slugs being used in the purchase of insurance?

With kindest personal regards and trusting to hear from you at once, believe me

Very cordially, [signed] David E. Kahn DavidEKahn/BBS

R6. 12/4/30 Mr. Drummond’s letter to DEK:

Mr. David E. Kahn, 419 La Fayette St., New York, N.Y.

Dear Mr. Kahn:

Replying further to your letter of December 2nd, we feel entirely satisfied to have you handle the situation at your end according to your best judgement.

We wish you to understand that we have implicit confidence in you and your ability to take care of things, and assure you, as we did in New York, that the matter is entirely in your hands.

I believe we told you that we had shown the proposition to two other persons in New York who are able to put it over, and who are personal connections of the writer. They both asked for a chance to handle it, but were given to understand very definitely that we were dealing with you, and that you have the first call.

Therefore, being entirely free from any obligation whatsoever, we willingly accede to your requirement, and hereby obligate ourselves to give you thirty days notice of any intention on your part of discussing the matter with other parties, in full accordance with the terms of your letter.

To be explicit with you, we wish you to understand, as we told Mr. Cayce, that we laid all our cards on your table, and with no reservations, put them into your hands to be played, in mutual confidence as to your protection of our joint interests.

We might call your attention to the tendency of some one man in any group who always wants to tell one why something cannot be done.

We have studied this proposition from every angle, and we have the answer to every kind of objection a critic can offer. For this reason, we believe that when the time comes we can be of considerable service in handling this phase of the matter, and in closing such prospects that you might suggest our seeing.

In this way we can relieve you of considerable burden at the proper time.

Both of us have had varied business experience along financial lines and as salesmen, and we are well qualified to relieve you of most of the detail work.

As to the rejection of slugs by the machine: We know that machines vending chocolates, or any other tangible goods, take in a considerable number of slugs, the most of which are made of steel or iron punchings.

Such slugs are easily taken care of by leaving an opening in the side of the coin chute, with a small permanent magnet directly opposed to the opening. This draws this class of slug and permits it to drop into the box before it reaches the operating device.

We have given this much thought and almost reached the conclusion that since we are not selling something tangible to tempt a thief, and in view of the fact that the purchase is entirely valueless except in the eventuality of accident, the intake of slugs will be reduced to a minimum, especially since the purchaser is buying a contract and his name must be written on the stub and left in the machine.

Further, we believe it safe to assume that the traveling public are not apt to be loaded up with slugs with which to buy accident policies. The type of person who practices this method is hardly of the class to consider his dependents enough to worry about accident insurance.

The kind preparing to defraud the Insurance Company, would hardly be the ones to risk having their claims contested on the ground that had bought the insurance with slugs.

Again: The machines will be in places where they are under observation at all times, and not apt to be tampered with.

We have carefully considered the stamp machine being incorporated in this machine, but in our opinion it would not be good sales psychology to suggest to the buyer that he must go to the trouble of finding an extra penny with which to buy the stamp.

When a policy is bought at the ticket window, you don’t expect to get a stamp, but buy one elsewhere as a matter of course.

It might be well to locate a regular stamp machine near our machine for the convenience of our customers.

As each machine holds over 2,000 cards, the frozen capital invested in unsold stamps would be very large.

One minor point, which we do not believe we mentioned to you in our talk: We suggest calling the card the “A.B.C.” meaning “Accident Benefit Card.” This gives us considerable advertising value, as we parallel the Safety First motto “Always Be Careful.”

In closing we wish to say that we know this proposition can be put over so as to be a wonderful success. No doubt some apparent obstacles will arise, as in every large proposition, but we are sure that there will be none which cannot be overcome with ingenuity, and sufficient capital.

With best wishes, we are,

Cordially, WEAVER AND DRUMMOND, By: [signed] J. F. Drummond

CC to: Mr. Edgar Cayce

R7. 1/20/31 Mr. Weaver’s letter to DEK:

Weaver and Drummond 422 Dickson building Norfolk, Virginia

Mr. David E. Kahn, New York City

Dear Mr. Kahn:

We have been hoping to hear from you for the past week, according to the message we received through Mr. Cayce, but have been disappointed.

We assume that you have been making progress, but would appreciate it very much if you will advise us how you are getting on.

On Jan. 6th we sent you a full set of blue prints of the machine, same being signed for by “C. Hofer”, but have had no word from you that you received them. Please advise.

We realize fully that it is no slight task to get your end lined up properly, but as we wrote you several weeks ago, time is working a hardship on us, as we are naturally anxious to proceed with our plans, so we can get on an income basis.

Last week we were visited by a man who has put over several large enterprises, who wanted to take hold of our proposition, offering us money for options etc., but we told him plainly that we were definitely committed to you, and had no intention of dealing with any one else at present.

Therefore, Mr. Kahn we hope to hear from you as soon as it is practicable, as it is necessary for us both.

With kindest regards, and best wishes, we are

Cordially yours, WEAVER AND DRUMMOND, By: W. W. Weaver

CC to Mr. Cayce

R8. 1/22/31 DEK’s letter to EC: ”…While in Chicago, I had a meeting with all parties concerned in the insurance machine. They are very enthused and very interested. They expect to make a million dollars a year out of this proposition so before any definite thing is done, we want to decide just what our group is to get out of it and how it is to be handled. The model is now being figured upon and will be ready, probably within ten days. There are several improvements which we want to embody but will discuss that with Weaver and Drummond when I come down…”

R9. 1/26/31 See 4904-2.

Background

Background

B1. Subject of Reading - “Automatic Insurance Vending Machine”.

B2. 11/11/30 J. F. Drummond’s letter to David Kahn:

Weaver and Drummond 422 Dickson Building Norfolk, Virginia

Mr. David E. Kahn, New York City

My dear Mr. Kahn:

Please accept our thanks for your very courteous reception and your splendid interest and cooperation which you showed while we were in New York.

We have just left Mr. Cayce, who has made an appointment for a reading on next Thursday at eleven o’clock.

We shall forward the results of this to you immediately.

With kindest regards, we are,

Yours very truly, Weaver and Drummond [signed] J. F. Drummond

Copy to Mr. Edgar Cayce

B3. Summarizing a number of points concerning the plan for the automatic vending of Accident Insurance Policies:

The general plan consists of placing in suitable locations thousands of machines so constructed as to deliver a combination greeting card and accident insurance policy to the person depositing a coin in the machine.

It will be observed that the idea combines a greeting card, which the insuring public may use to send a daily message to his family, and a stub to be detached and dropped back in the machine. This stub will be automatically dated, and timed when the operating lever is pulled down. This timing will be done by a dating machine operated by a time clock.

On the face of the machine is an illustrated sign flashing periodically, to call attention to the device at all hours.

Suitable places for the installation of machines will be railroad and steamship offices, waiting rooms, bus terminals, interurban stations, subway stations, hotel lobbies, filling stations, elevated stations, overnight storage garages, ferries, U-Drive-It garages, resorts, bath house entrances, restaurants, automats or other places where people congregate.

Aviation fields could be supplied, if desirable, with rated policies.

At this time vending machines are largely patronized, and few small commodities are not sold by this method. They are in evidence almost everywhere people gather.

There will be found coin operated locks on doors, automats, amusement and music machines, gambling devices, machines for selling drinking cups, medicine, tooth brushes, soap and towels, food and candies, post cards and almost anything else that is small enough to be vended. AND THEY ALL SHOW A PROFIT.

Vending machines eliminate the loss of time and inconvenience of waiting on clerks or change and their ubiquity always suggests a purchase, where clerks are too indifferent or too busy to make the initial move.

The buying public is more interested in accident insurance than ever before on account of the enormous increase in travel, especially by automobiles, but the methods of marketing it remain in the same archaic state that has existed for generations.

In order to get a per diem policy, the customer is obliged to seek it of a busy ticket agent thru a wicket, often with a crowd waiting behind to catch a train.

The popularity of souvenir post cards is so great that an enormous business has grown around the idea of a brief daily message home rather than a lengthy letter on rare occasions.

From an advertising standpoint the names obtained from the stubs will be of great value to the insurance company, as they will be classified and later canvassed by local agents for yearly policies.

The fact that they have bought temporary additional protection shows that they are interested in insurance. They should be good prospects.

The cost of classifying can be recovered by selling duplicate lists to name brokers, magazine agencies, etc. They should have a special value in that every one is a correct name, address, age and sex of a living person, able to buy something.

It has been stated by representatives of insurance companies now doing business with railroad companies that the advertising value of having the name of the insurance company constantly on display in stations and waiting rooms has an enormous advertising value as it keeps them before the traveling public.

The Modus Operandi of The Automatic eliminates immediately the commission paid to ticket agents and supplants him with a man who can serve 200 or more machines by visiting them bi-monthly.

Record keeping is reduced to automatic action. A numbering device is attached to each lever on each machine and shows at a glance how many cards have been delivered from it. The cards are numbered in serials. The agencies are designated by this means, and the agent in turn keeps a record of the cards in each machine. They are charged to the agents in bulk, and they account for them in money or in stock returned or left on hand.

Claims may be traced quickly, for when an accident is reported at the home office the serial number of the card is given. This is immediately traced to the agency, who gets the stub from the machine which vended it and sends it to the home office.

Each claim paid will be a big advertisement for us.

The field to be covered is a vast one and it is estimated that there should be an immediate market for thousands of machines.

If business were confined to filling stations alone, not less than a hundred thousand excellent locations are available. Railroad stations, hotel lobbies, resorts, etc., should absorb a large number and yield a large volume of business. If only a small percentage of the available locations were taken, and a profit of only $3.00 a month taken from each machine the profit to accrue would be enormous.

All the necessary means have been taken to protect this form of policy such as copyright, proper filing of patent claims, etc.

This insurance should be underwritten by one of the large insurance companies which already has an agent in every town and city in the country, so that a skeleton organization will already be set up to install and maintain the machines.

ESTIMATE BASED ON AVERAGE SALES OF $1.00 PER DAY PER MACHINE

GROSS INCOME

Total sales per annum per machine…365.00 Estimating 100,000 machines in operation, 36,500,000.00

DISBURSEMENTS

To Underwriters…$7,320,000.00 Commissions to owners of locations…7,320,000.00 Depreciations on machines…500,000.00 Gross profit to operating company…21,360,000.00

$36,500,000.00

Mentioned Entities

David Kahn, New York City, King David, Ideal, Virginia Beach, Air Shafts (Pyramid), Chicago, Gertrude Cayce, Gladys Davis

Source: The Complete Edgar Cayce Readings, A.R.E. CD-ROM (2006). Reading 4904-1, ReadingID 12923.